The POCO C++ Libraries Blog

Webwidgets in SVN

Filed under: Uncategorized by peter at 15:25

Although WebWidgets is not finished yet, I decided to commit WebWidgets to svn, so that you guys can take a first look.
Only VS80 solution files are recent now, events are still incomplete, and I am not really happy with the way ExtJS tables are rendered. Main development branch of WebWidgets is from now on the Subversion trunk branch. The old sandbox version will continue to live for a few weeks (maybe we can still reuse a bit from the code there).
For those willing to check it out: start the ExtJs testsuite in the bin folder, execute. Then open the generated HTML files in your web browser.
There is still plenty of work left…

  1. Thanks, looks good. When running from the IDE, HTML files are generated in the project directory, though, which is annoying from the standpoint of clutter and files not working.


    P.S. I have added VS 90 solutions/projects for libs and testsuites (SVN, rev. 539).

    NB: Can we please establish the rule to use $(ProjectName) macro (instead of hard-coded project name in 5 places in *.vcproj) in the library and samples VS projects? It helps a great deal to create new solutions and add configurations to the existing ones.

    Comment by alex on May 12, 2008, 21:12

  2. very good

    Comment by coolzdp on May 23, 2008, 11:32

  3. How Do You cope with the fact that ExtJS is gone full GPL
    (after some license-trickery).

    To me extjs is (has been since long time) not an option
    when developing commercial applications.

    There’ still GI,YUI,QOOXDOO…



    Comment by Roberto M on June 2, 2008, 10:29

  4. Well, I don’t think we will have problems with the GPL, the WebWidgets are open-source (boost license). Also, WebWidgets is the core lib and extjs is just a renderer for webwidgets. Multiple different implementations are possible, if you want you can write a renderer for each of the frameworks you mentioned (or you can pay us to do it for you 😉 ).



    Comment by peter on June 2, 2008, 12:07

  5. Peter, thanks for the kind and prompt response.

    It’s true that if You use GPL3 swonly through an interface,
    and the implementation exists for other frameworks, You can
    bypass the “GPL virality” but this implies You can’t sell or distribute a closed source project enclosing ExtJS.

    You’ll need to force the customer at least to a separate download.

    Boost library license is ok, and it mixes well with GPL as
    long as the resulting product is fully open source. This issue is a no-no in corporate environments I know of.

    Another thing has always scared me out of ExtJS:
    it started (and I very much liked it) as BSD Yui-EXT,
    then it went LGPL, then LGPL with weird restrictions,
    and now GPLv3. What next? Pay blood for use? Sell-Your-Soul-License?

    About WebWidgets renderers in YUI, or Qooxdoo, or GI:
    I’d really like the other way: if You want, You can pay me to write it. 😀



    Comment by Roberto M on June 2, 2008, 13:32

  6. but we already did! with thousands of code-lines and a product called poco 🙂

    but seriously, currently we have no plans to support any of the above packages. If somebody volunteers to write a new renderer, we will gladly support him but I have enough to do with webwidgets and extjs currently. Well, it’s all about resources…


    Comment by peter on June 2, 2008, 15:08

  7. >Boost library license is ok, and it mixes well with GPL as
    >long as the resulting product is fully open source. This >issue is a no-no in corporate environments I know of.

    It depends what a corporation is doing with it. You can use modified GPL software for commercial purposes and never release the changes if you are using it internally. This works fine for companies that only use and do not distribute software.

    Qt-type Quid pro quo, however, is going a step further and mandating open sourcing whenever software is used for commercial purposes.

    The licensing information came as a surprise (and worry) to me and I agree that ExtJS, although a superior product, has an outrageous licensing policy.


    Comment by alex on June 4, 2008, 09:40

  8. It seems the ExtJS guys can’t make up their mind on what license to use. Their ever changing policy has actually scared away quite a few. Yahoo YUI is probably more promising. Not as nice looking but it has a BSD license and is backed by a large commercial entity.

    Having said that I found Roberto’s post hilarious… asking Peter ( the guy who freed Poco ) to pay for features ..?

    Comment by paschal on June 5, 2008, 15:04

  9. A correction about ‘quid pro quo’ – I meant to say that it mandates either open sourcing or payment.

    As for Roberto’s comment, it is not inconceivable to find a commercial entity that has a need for something like that and is willing to pay for the development – a lot of open source development nowadays is done by folks who are paid to do it.

    I’m not sure what his motives are but they both smiled while talking about it, so I would not turn that topic into a contention issue. I am very grateful to Applied Informatics folks for the generous gift of a great framework. I am also always happy to hear that someone is making money using POCO or adding features to it.

    Comment by alex on June 5, 2008, 23:54

  10. Um, what’s wrong of buying a commercial license from Ext if you don’t like GPL?

    Comment by guenter on June 10, 2008, 16:30

  11. There’d be nothing wrong about buying license had they said upfront I have to pay. But I was told it was free. Now that I’m entangled, I have to pay. That’s wrong.

    Comment by alex on June 11, 2008, 01:35

  12. I agree – that’s a bad move. I assume they had not enough paying customers…

    Comment by guenter on June 11, 2008, 14:42

  13. Things like that really throw bad light on the free/open source movement in general. While we are at it, I think it would be a good idea to give our users some form of assurance that we will not do anything of sorts with POCO.

    Comment by alex on June 12, 2008, 00:40

  14. Just found this: SproutCore.
    Apparently, this is was Apple uses for all the new MobileMe greatness (and also parts of .Mac).
    And: MIT License.
    What I’m missing currently is a Table widget. But I guess it’s not too hard to come up with one.

    Comment by guenter on June 17, 2008, 15:12

  15. You may want to look at Qooxdoo. I did try it a couple of years ago. It was a bit rough around edges and resource-hungry. It does have a lot of functionality, though and maybe it’s gotten better in the meantime.

    Comment by alex on June 17, 2008, 19:08

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